Fade to Black with Jimmy Church Interviews Marshall Vian Summers: UFO Disclosure

Fade to Black with Jimmy Church Interviews Marshall Vian Summers: UFO Disclosure 2018-09-27T18:52:25+00:00

Jimmy Church: Marshall Summers—he’s been immersed in the religious experience for the past 35 years. This has resulted in his receiving a vast body of writings about the nature of human spirituality and humanity’s destiny with a larger panorama of intelligent life in the universe. These writings, encompassed the Teaching in the New Message, contain a theological framework that accounts for life and the presence of God in the Greater Community, the vast expanse of space and time that we know to be our universe. The cosmology that he has been receiving contains many messages and one of which is that humanity is emerging into a Greater Community of intelligent life and for this we must prepare. Inherent in this message is the understanding that humanity is not alone in the universe or even alone within our own world, and that within this Greater Community humanity will have friends, competitors and adversaries. Tonight we’re gonna be talking about disclosure, alien contact, climate change and, of course, religion; and much, much more. I would like to welcome to Fade to Black for the first time, Marshall Summers. Marshall, good evening.

MVS: Good evening.

JC: How are you?

MVS: I’m doing very well, good to be with you.

JC: It’s a pretty exciting times, my friend.

MVS: Yes it is. There’s a lot happening in the world and we’re going through a real change and set of changes in many different levels.

JC: The uh (echo) you need to turn me down in the background. Whatever that is, that’s a bad echo coming back. The the timing of you coming on the show tonight, which is great you know, it’s called synchronicity, right? You never ignore those but I had mentioned in, in the opening of the show tonight that last month, maybe two months ago, last month I went through this whole Marshall Sommers phase, right? And I was just reading your stuff and, and, and was listening to some interviews. And I just thought the timing is right; we’ve got to get Marshall on the show. And so we reached out and, and here you are. But what you and I didn’t know was that this Saturday was gonna break out in mainstream media talking about these subjects that you have been trying to bring out into the public for, for, if decades, right? How do you (MVS: That’s right.) feel about, yeah, how do you feel about what went down on Saturday and what continues to go down right now?

MVS: Well it’s a wonderful thing to have this information revealed. I always ask myself, Why now? Is this simply to be a temperature test for the public to see how many people will respond? Is it a slow leak process by which we’re being acclimated to the reality of visitation in our world? Is it something that happened in spite of all of the obstacles that have been set in place? And I really can’t answer these questions, and I won’t try. But I think it’s an important thing because educating people about this is of the utmost importance. This is the greatest event in human history. And people are unaware, and they’re unprepared, and, and we can certainly talk more about this. But I feel that this is the biggest event that we’ve ever experienced and could hold great promise for us as well as great hazard.

JC: I have watched a bunch of you–, and listened to a bunch of your interviews over the years and I, I want to say this: I felt that those that were doing the interviews were out of their wheelhouse, right? They may not have fully understood not only your message and what you’re trying to relay; but the bigger question, too, of the question of life in the universe and have we been visited here. And you, you… I think that your message was always on point. But did you feel that you struggled with that, trying to get the media out there to understand what the message is? And I still do today, even after all of this with the mainstream media, I think that those hosts out there are still struggling because they don’t really understand the information that is, is right there in front of them.

MVS: Mm, yes, there was a struggle and I still find this at times. But I think things have changed. I think certain windows have been opened now that really weren’t open before. We’ve turned some corners and maybe they were invisible corners to us. But I think there’s a real out reaching now for people to know about the phenomenon that we’re experiencing. I have readers in 113 countries, so it’s telling me that people around the world—different faiths, cultures, everything—are having some kind of core experience or sharing some kind of experience or awareness that we are not alone in our own world, and that something about the nature of our world, the feeling of being here, has really changed. (JC: The–) I have a very big Message and sometimes hosts really didn’t give me the opportunity to, to kind of create a panorama, a context for the things that I wanted to say, and that made it very difficult for me to deliver the core Messages that I wanted to deliver.

JC: Yeah. You know what I always got and this is—you’re gonna enjoy this show tonight for sure because it’ll be the exact opposite—but I think a lot of the hosts wanted to go with the, the shock value of, “What? Aliens and religion?” You know, “What?” You know? And they wanted… and their, that was their angle for it, completely missing the mark, Marshall.

MVS: Yes. Well you know, our venturing into a Greater Community of intelligent life over time will have all the religions needing to reassess their fundamental beliefs and assumptions. We’re dealing with a God of the whole Greater Community now. We’re not dealing with a God of our one world, a God of our human history, a God of our culture, a God of our passions, a God of our temperament. We’re dealing with something just much, much greater. And I think this is a, an evolutionary step for us—a very big one. But as we’ve known in history that religion often is the last to be able to respond to these kinds of great steps, these evolutionary steps; have a huge amount invested in a certain way of looking at life in the world. And they’re only looking at our world. But when we see ourselves within this Greater Community of life, that begins to open all kinds of doors for us.

IL: Why the silence over the, these past few days from the religious community? That’s the, that’s the voice here that hasn’t hasn’t stepped up yet. What do you think is going on?

MVS: Well, I think they don’t know what to say. It’s not part of their framework. It’s not part of their theology. They can only assume that we’re probably not alone in the universe because that’s the most reasonable explanation they can give.The theology of our existing religions cannot account for this, except perhaps in vague symbology. But we’re at a transition now into becoming a world people, into becoming a people who are attempting to emerge into this larger arena of life as a free and sovereign race. And it’s a very great challenge to do that. We have obstacles from within. We have obstacles from without. And the outcome is uncertain yet.

I was asked recently in a show that, “Given all the adversity facing us, don’t you get discouraged? Don’t you just want to give up? It seems like almost the mission impossible.” And I said to the host, “You know, we do this anyway. Even if the odds are completely against us, we do this anyway.”

JC: All right; what’s the alternative, right?

MVS: Well, absolutely. And you know anything that has ever really happened in the world of any real significance has always had to face almost insurmountable odds. And so I feel that we have a chance, we have a real chance now, before the internet becomes completely shut down, before world communication becomes completely shut down, we have a chance. I’m sure that’s why you’re the host that you are—we have a chance. This is our opportunity. This is our opportunity to bring something to people that they’re reaching for but cannot get from their religions, cannot get from their government, cannot get from culture and society. You know there’s a lot of people I think in the world today who have a real what I call a Greater Community history to them. Somehow they have an innate connection to life in the universe. (JC: Right) They have an innate interest in them, a pull, a draw. You know they could end up being astronomers. They could end up being ufologists. They could end up being just natural stargazers. But there’s many people in the world today I feel and I’m seeing from the response, that have this natural desire to know, this need to know.

But who can answer their questions? Really, who can point a way except in programs such as your program? (JC: Right) The media is pretty closed down to this. The education is not happening on any kind of large or visible scale. But when I hear about secret groups in China studying the alien presence or UFOs and other places who you wouldn’t expect—Islamic countries for example—then it’s telling me that there is a natural time; this is the time for this. But this time won’t last forever. It’s like a window. It’s like a launch window. The opportunities begin to line up and things begin to happen. And this is uh, this is our time.

JC: When did you, when did you start to establish this framework? Did you always have that that question as a child, you know, as a young man looking up to the stars, like, you know we all did, right? Was it, was it that, you know, because you have the religious training and education too, as well; and they don’t normally parallel themselves. (MVS: Uh huh) So for you how did this, how did this come about?

MVS: Well, you know, until this process of Revelation began for me, I really wasn’t looking at the life in the universe question. I was looking more at the environmental problems of the world. I was looking at the problems of religion, which were just not answering these innate needs within myself; because somehow we’re entering into something very different now. This is a non-human universe that we’re emerging into. And it’s, we’re not emerging because of our journeys into space, but because of the presence of those who are with us, (JC: Right) present in our world.

So I began then to really be prepared to look at what I call the whole greater community issue and reality as part of the Revelation that I have been experiencing, beginning in 1981.

JC: What happened in ‘81?

MVS: In 1981 I had an epiphany—a great presence came over me and just sort of shattered my life by the sheer force of its –. It was gracious, but so powerful. And after this happened I looked at my life and I just knew that I was going to have to change everything. So I wandered for nine months. I gave up my students. I gave up my programs I was teaching at that time. I left my relationships and I wandered for nine months. And it ended up in the desert of the American Southwest. And this presence came again, not quite so forcibly, and told me to return to the city and begin to record. That was all it said, (JC: Right) no explanation. But I innately knew what this meant. This meant that I had something to receive that had to be received. And that would have been the January of 1982. And that was the very beginning of this.

But interestingly, this Greater Community part of this whole Message began to be given to me at the beginning. And the orientation to that it was like–, I had to get out of my human-only reality and begin to think about our destiny in a universe full of intelligent life, of which we know thing about.

JC: Was it, was it religious? Was it, was that communication religious? Or did you, were you able to identify where, you know, how and what, you know, where it was coming from?

MVS: Well the experience of this Divine Presence, which was so powerful, was definitely a religious experience for me, (JC: Right) but I was not thinking about religion at that time. (JC: Right) I couldn’t see in religion the answers to the questions that were beginning to emerge for me.

JC: That’s –

MVS: I was beginning to wonder where we are really going.

JC: – we all go through that struggle. Oh, I’m sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt.

MVS: Yes, yes –

JC: But yeah we all go through that, and especially when I look back to 1981-82, a strange time for the country. But I also went through a few epiphanies too as well that involved religion and UFOs. It was… but I was only 21 at the time. And I think we all go through that.

MVS: Yes.

JC: But there’s there’s a couple of direct questions that I want to ask you about.

MVS: OK.

JC: One of them is this. I, I often, in jest, but I actually really mean what I’m about to say. You know, you hear the comments over and over about, well, why doesn’t, you know, why doesn’t an ET just land that flying saucer on the White House lawn? You know, if we all had a nickel for every time we’ve heard that statement. (MVS: Mm hum. Yes.) But I often imagine, Marshall, if it lands and the stairs, you know, descend; and now from the bottom of the saucer steps down, and it’s Jesus. (laughs) And it’s just like… And he’s standing there going, “OK, man, I’m back. What’s up everybody?”

MVS: Yeah.

JC: And, and wouldn’t that be –? Because, if we look at the universe as a whole, a that, we’re talking about something all-encompassing of everything right? So why,

MVS: Mm hum, mm hum. Yes.

JC: I don’t put that out of the realm possibility here, you know? And I don’t push the religious card but I would not be surprised if that actually happened. What do you think about that thought?

MVS: Well, that’s interesting you bring that up, because there’s a part of the Revelation called, “The Danger of Second Coming,” (JC: Mm-hmm) where someone who is in the persona of Jesus returns, claiming to be Jesus, appearing like our normal images of Jesus; but really is part of the intervention, the alien intervention –

JC: Right.

MVS: that we are so conditioned to be unquestioning about certain things that that could work. In fact the intervention can present holographic images of our saviours and our Saints at the foot of our bed and command us to do certain things. I mean, it makes you wonder how many future terrorists had the image of Mohammed appear holographically in their room and direct them to jihad. (JC: Mm-hmm) See, this is this is the skill of those who are visiting our world. They are not a military force. They are not large a number. But they have great skills in affecting our thinking, our feelings, emotions in projecting things into our minds that we respond to in predictable ways. They can speak to our religious beliefs in ways that will undermine us. This is a, this is how things work out there. You know, we’re not living in a Star Wars universe. We’re living in a universe where races have evolved beyond outright conflict and use more subtle means of persuasion and deception to exert their influence upon one another, and now upon our home world of Earth.

JC: Do you think that’s what is part of what went down this weekend?

MVS: You know, that’s a good question. I, I think there’s something very genuine that prompted this. Now other people may read it differently. I was very glad to see it. Of course, I copied it and sent it out to many, many people. I think anything that can educate about the reality of the visitation is beneficial, as long as no interpretation is added on to it. See, it’s the interpretation that fools people. The many people who have had sightings all over the world, most of whom are probably too afraid to come forth and speak about it, they know they saw something. They don’t really even need to be told what it was. They know it wasn’t us.

But the problem with religion is religion conditions people to see things based on faith rather than on observation and clear thinking. Religion tends to become delusional in this way, particularly amongst uneducated people, but educated people as well. (JC: Sure) I think the religious viewpoint is very, very skewed. And one has to be willing to set aside their beliefs, at least temporarily, to see something clearly like this; because the visitation in the world today is not a fulfillment of our religious prophecies, beliefs or expectations. It is an act of nature.

JC: How so?

MVS: And we can talk about that.

JC: Yeah, yeah. How so? How so?

MVS: Because in nature competition is, is a fundamental element of nature. This is a natural event in that light. The universe is also part of nature. The evolution of life is part of nature. Competition in life is nature. So I think before we assign other kinds of meanings to those who are present in our world, we have to look at this at that fundamental level. Competition means that other races want what we have. We are degrading the world so rapidly, a world of immense value, a world that is rare in a universe of barren planets. And naturally, others will seek to gain an opportunity to take it from us—in this case without the use of force.

JC: One of the things, Marshall, that – I just brought up the Vatican – but also, all of the world’s religions right now are strangely silent. But one of the things that we have been told inside and outside of the UFO community is that disclosure happens: we have anarchy; we have pandemonium. The, the economy collapses. Borders collapse and religion collapses; that they won’t know what to do with themselves. Well, OK. So we haven’t heard from the Vatican. We haven’t heard from Saudi Arabia. We haven’t heard from Israel. We haven’t heard from anybody right now. But also the, the religious of the world haven’t freaked out I don’t I don’t see you know tires being burned in the streets (MVS: Mm-hum, mm-hum.) and, and churches burned and mosque burned. I haven’t seen any of that. And that is surprising to me; I’m happy about it. But is there this, it’s like is it non-interest, you know? Shouldn’t there be a little bit more shock value and questions put on the table?

MVS: Well, that’s a very good question. I mean the Vatican has two observatories, one in Tucson and one in Italy. I mean they don’t want, they want to keep up with this. They don’t want to become irrelevant. They don’t want to become a relic of the past. So they’re taking a very proactive approach. Other religious bodies? It’s really hard to tell. And if they are looking at this, they’re not talking about it, you know. Because if you begin to talk about this it immediately puts your religious context into question. “How relevant is my religion to life beyond my world, this world?” Because life beyond this world is life. We live in the Greater Community. We’ve always lived in the Greater Community. It’s been the context for our existence the whole way. But when that becomes a conscious thing, now we begin to kind of shake the foundation of our understanding, which I think is extremely beneficial if it can be presented, you know, in a very clear and compassionate manner. But for many people whose whole life is based on their faith tradition, their faith understanding this is like a revolution in thinking. This is like an earthquake underneath their feet. And so they don’t go there because of their comfort zone.

JC: Because it upsets their, their world paradigm and the religious paradigm?

MVS: You know it’s, it’s their identity. I mean religion is about identity.

JC: But isn’t it– ?

MVS: Religion is about other things. I don’t want to say that as a total definition.

JC: No, no. I understand.

MVS: But religion becomes identity. And identity is something people fight for, guard unknowingly, irrationally—identity. I think the people who are going to break the ground here are these people that I call Greater Community people—people who have this natural need to know, this natural inclination to be connected to life in the universe as if they’re, they’ve come from there; or they have some kind of association there that’s innate to who they are, being in the world at this time. And there’s a spiritual perspective about that that I think could be valuable for us to understand. I certainly am considering it. And that is that, you know, the people who are in the world today have come into the world each with a purpose to be in the world at this time, under these circumstances. It’s a sense of innate purpose, and it also implies that each of us has a destiny here. It is about where the world is and where it’s going because we are at the greatest turning point in history right now.

JC: We certainly are.

MVS: What happens, what happens in the next 20 or 30 years will determine the outcome for everyone. We’re living in a time frame of just immense consequence. And I think that falls into two big categories. One is the consequences of how we’ve changed the world and its climate. And the second is our encounter with forces from this Greater Community of life.

JC: I, you know, I don’t think it’s a 20 to 30 years. I think it’s more like 20 to 30 hours, Marshall. These are critical, these are critical times. We need to take a break right here so let’s do just that. Our guest tonight is Marshall Summers. Um, we’re gonna continue this discussion on disclosure and alien contact and of course climate change, our earth, humans, human beings, humanity and religion and much more. I’m your host, Jimmy Church; this is Fade to Black. More of Marshall Summers after this short break. Stay with us…

JC: Now Marshall, check this out. I have gatherings that we do with intellectuals, both dinner parties and then you know conferences and we’re out (MVS: Mm-hum) across the country and and we get together and we sit around and we have those conversations like a Paris cafe in 1930, right?, (MVS: Mm-hum, mm-hum) drinking coffee getting all intellectual and philosophical. And, and so I’m talking bout researchers, authors, contactees, experiencers and so forth. And we love talking about UFOs—that’s what we do. And (MVS: Uh huh) but inevitably the conversation will switch to religion. And one–, and, and none of us are experts here, right? But we always want to ask the, you know, the bigger questions. And one of those questions is this: is ET experiencing religion like we do here? Do they have the same God? Did they go through, you know, the Son of –, Jesus or the cross? Did they go through the same things here on earth across the universe? And is that, is it that universal? You’re on the show I have to ask you that question.

MVS: Well this is a good question. And those visiting our world—if they are religious—it’s something very foreign to anything that we know. But the important thing that I’m really interested in—very important to me—is the understanding of who God is. Because if God is the source of all sentient life in the universe, the physical universe in this galaxy, other galaxies, other dimensions and in timeless reality beyond the physical realm all together, we’re talking about a God of such immense proportions, something the ancients could never even think of or conceive of. And that’s why God was portrayed with human qualities, human emotions. human motivations and so forth. Now we’re facing a God of the entire universe, their God, too. That is their God, too

LC: It has to be that way…

MVS: It has to be that way, right. Now that doesn’t mean that all races are religion. In fact the New Message tells tells us that most of the great, the big technological races, are very secular in nature; that they try to make the governments of these worlds godlike or, you know, this, the focus of devotion, solely, because religion can definitely compete with secular powers as has been the case in history of our world. But the God –. Part of this is, part of the reason that people cannot seem to grasp what we’re talking about when we talk about life in the universe—it’s almost like they get stopped short because they cannot understand how that would blend with their notion or belief about God. It’s a huge impediment. And I think religion ultimately is about something bigger than our theologies; it’s much bigger than our belief systems, bigger than our traditions. It has to do with an innate intelligence that lives within us that is our God connection.

In the New Message this is called Knowledge. It’s referring to our ability to have profound knowing and insight, beyond time and space, beyond any kind of rational process that we may feel is necessary to have understanding. We’re able to have deeper understanding in a very innate and natural way. And I think this deeper understanding plays a critical role in our ability to understand the alien presence that’s in the world today, as well as every other aspect of our life here on earth. I mean we are living now at a time when things are breaking down. Some of these things need to break down. Some of them tragically break down. But our belief about God is breaking down. And what’s breaking it down is our emergence into this universe full of intelligent life. Because it’s a reality that, over time, will become so irrefutable, will become so ridiculous to deny it. And even, you know, even rational people who have never even thought about this, I’ve heard them say to me, say, you know, “I know we’ve, there’s just got to be other races out there. It’s just impossible that were the only ones.”

And now we have science finding you know terrestrial planets. (JC: Daily!) It was, there was an article in the major newspapers today about bacteria found that’s 3.5 billion years old that could exist in other worlds. It’s, it’s not oxygen based. So we have the elements of life…and this was the National Academy of Sciences that came out with this. It declared that life in the universe must be abundant if we can have bacteria—this bacteria is so tiny; it’s just amazingly tiny. But it’s 350 billion years old at a time when nothing else could live on Earth, a completely hostile Environment. And so they spoke as they’re concluding statement in this article that this must mean that life is abundant in the universe, okay? Because this elemental life comes the evolution of all life

JC: Do you have that number right?

MVS: though the universe…

JC: Let me jump in Marshall. The, the three hundred and fifty billion years old—the universe is fourteen and a half billion years old. (MVS: mm-hmm) So having a bacteria that’s three hun—, maybe, maybe the number’s wrong. But still that’s an extraordinary thing to find, because just recently—also two weeks ago—they found bacteria growing on the outside of the International space station. How many –

MVS: Oh, that’s interesting.

JC: Yeah. How did it get… and, you know, what, this is the other crazy part…

MVS: How did it get there? Right, exactly.

JC: And they brought it…

MVS: We don’t even realize we’re living in a bio zone that is so immense that it can, it’s totally confounding to our understanding. And so I think the significance here, though, is that life was existing in conditions that we never thought a life could exist in.

JC: That’s right.

MVS: And so the age is significant within our world’s, the context of our world’s assumed history. Certainly the New Message says that space travel’s happening before humanity even existed.

JC: Of course…

MVS: That, that is in itself… See, every every step a person takes in this direction is mind-blowing. It’s, it takes them outside their normal range of awareness, their normal range of understanding. And many people just don’t have the courage to go there. But for those who do, it becomes very rich, but also very confounding because the answers are not immediate. You know you, you have to live with this—and I know you know, must know what I’m saying here—you have to live with these unanswered questions. And if you’ll do that it will take you somewhere you could not go before.

JC: I wanted to ask you this, and certainly with the New Message as well, when we look back to 2000 years ago–let’s, let’s, you know, a nice round number—let’s go to zero. (MVS: Uh huh) And the, the text and the dogma, if you will, from back then, was that all of the Knowledge? Everything came from up there, right? God came from up there? Angels are coming down from up there. We have, we have information, we have that, you know, God said, right? God said do this. God said do not do– . Could all of that have been of an ET origin? And, and, and, and if we interpreted all of that, certainly it would make everything make sense pretty easily.

MVS: Mm-hmm. Well the New Message says we only had very limited visitations in the world in ancient times because, and for very specific purposes. One of the limiting factors was the biological hazard of our world that races who live in sterile environments could not tolerate. When you think of the number of biological agents that exist in our world, which exceeds any number that we can give to it, this is a very big factor, by the way, in how the New Message describes the interaction of worlds in the universe. The problem of contamination is huge. It’s immense. And that we never, should never think that this is, is something that technology alone can completely overcome.

But I want to make it very, I want to emphasize, in my view, aliens are not the source of religion in our world. That comes from a higher power. We should be very careful here. This is one of the problems of level confusion is assuming that everything operates together on one plane and through a natural association. The heavenly reality is completely different than the physical reality.

JC: How so?

MVS: So messages that have come to us that have been the source or the stimulus for the great traditions, and for all other kinds of religious developments and evolution, is really coming from a place far beyond the physical plane.

JC: The… I want to say, how so though? Because if, if everything is understanding and I’m talking about not only us, but everything else that is out there, and we all get it, then why would there be an imbalance? Why don’t we have the same information as the rest of the universe? Why are we held back? And I constantly [am] asking these very important questions.

MVS: Well, it’s interesting you say that because as above, so below. What is holding us back is what holds all races in the universe back: conflicts, evolution, adaptation, survival, competition. We, we’re living –. Physical universe is a difficult place to live in. And gaining advanced technology doesn’t make it easier. In fact, it can make it far more difficult. It makes it easier in some ways; it has solved some basic survival problems. But it also sets up other kinds of problems that could be far more difficult to deal with. And we’re seeing that in the world today.

We don’t we don’t know how to deal with our own pollution. We don’t know how to stop contaminating the world. Even though we, we all benefit from the advantages in science and technology that we experience every day. But our understanding is something that has levels. And religion, in a pure sense, has to do with Knowledge, in my view, has to do with Knowledge that exists deep within sentient beings. What do I mean by sentient being? A sentient being is someone who has an understanding of the future and the past, and a reference point beyond the physical; to be distinguished from just a very, very clever intelligent animal.

We are referenced beyond the physical plane. And this deeper Knowledge, that I hope we have time to talk to as we go along, is our connection to life beyond the physical plane. And that exists in all sentient life as a potential, but not as a reality. I mean look at, look at our own world. How many people are actively engaged with this deeper intelligence that lives within them, which holds the promise of who they are, what they need to do in life? It’s the God-connection. Because there’s a lot of believers in religion. There’s a lot of pundits of religion. But who is really having the core experience, you know? So, the potential for this is there for everyone, even across the universe. But the manifestation of it seems to be very rare as it is within our own world.

JC: Why do we… okay, I’ve got two statements here. First are questions. One, why do we still build guns? Why do we still kill each other? Does ET kill each other, right? Okay, so we’re gonna address that in a second.

MVS: OK.

JC: But the, the other point that I, that I think we’re at here, that where we’re so frustrated with being alone with ourselves on this planet. It’s just like, Marshall, if you and I were locked in a room for 30 years and (MVS Uh huh) then, right?, one of us is gonna die; one of us is gonna kill the oth—, no matter how how friendly we started out, right? (MVS: Yes, yes) And that’s where we are on this planet. And probably one of the things that would end a lot of frustration that is built up is that if we got off this, this, this thing, you know, and, and had a common goal and, and, and, and just, you know, blew this popsicle stand. And we would probably stop building those guns. So let’s go back to, let’s, let’s address all of these important issues. Why do we still build guns? Why do we still kill each other? And is ET doing the same thing?

MVS: Well, to the answer to the first question, it’s, it’s how we’ve always survived. Competition— go back to the competition problem. The tribe in the next valley over has a much better hunting grounds. We have very poor hunting grounds. There’s going to be competition for those resources. I mean, this is how humanity through the ages, from primitive—a very prolonged primitive state—even up to the present time has tried to survive. We almost don’t know a better way, even though there is a better way. Jesus spoke of the better way. Buddha spoke of the better way. I mean, the better way is not something that hasn’t existed. It’s just that we keep relying upon a very low part of our intelligence to be able to determine what we have to do. We still think that violence and destruction really works.

But even in our current world, a world of declining resources… Now I mean, destroying a city means it’s never going to get rebuilt, see? We can’t destroy like we did so wantonly before because the Earth is not going to provide the resources that can make that really possible. The wealth is declining in our world. The wealth is declining. So we’re entering, even as we begin to face this larger panorama of life on our own planet, we are hitting the limits that are going to require us to function differently or we will destroy ourselves. And one of the great challenges and one of the great risks I think we’re facing right now living in a declining world, a growing population in the world, shrink—, drinking from a slowly shrinking well, (JC: Uh huh) is that we will fight endlessly over who has access to the remaining resources.

This is a, this is a threat of warfare on a level never even seen before in this world. And this is a real risk. I don’t want to downplay this. We are, we are at a time of great risk and opportunity, OK? And the opportunity is really important, but so are the risks. This is why I feel that if we can recognize and prepare for our encounter with life in the universe, which is our destiny—it is our destiny—this is our time. It was always going to, meant to happen, could have been foreseen even long ago. Now we are there. If this can happen it’s the only thing that can bring an end to human conflict—even religious conflict, because we now become humans in this world being challenged by other races for dominance in our world.

I can’t think of anything else that holds a greater promise for uniting the human family and preventing us from going that, down that dreadful path of gradual self-destruction, fighting over the remaining resources of the world. I can’t think of anything else that could make that happen.

JC: Does ET have—

MVS: We’re never going to agree politically. We’re never going to agree about the best economic or political system. We’re never going to agree about music (laughs) (JC: Right) or anything else. But if we are all in the same boat facing the same challenge, that could, over time—not immediately, over time—begin to turn the tide away from self-destruction.

JC: Do we have a reason to fear ET?

MVS: Absolutely!

JC: How so?

MVS: Does does the Native Americans of 300 years ago have a reason to fear the tall ships that just came over the horizon?

JC: Well, I can answer that.

MVS: Absolutely.

JC: But so…

MVS: We are now, we are now the native peoples of the world facing intervention from races we do not understand. We are reliving what has happened in the world countless times. We have to take that position as a starting point our we or not using our native intelligence correctly. This is what history has taught us. This is what life has taught us. This is what nature has taught us. No race is coming here to help us. They are coming here for their own purposes. Any race that seeks to interfere with human affairs is doing this for their own reasons and own purpose.

JC: I like to say…

MVS: Intervention has taught us to… We have to we have to begin to consider this.

JC: I have often said, Marshall, that I walk around with flowers hanging out of my pockets, right? I just want everything to take the right path, all right? (MVS: Yes) That’s the way I live my life. And I would assume that ET has gone through the BS that we have gone through on this planet and has evolved to the point where they they are a kinder, gentler, you know, race of beings. But then the other point that, that makes me feel good about having that, that frame of mind, that mindset, is that if they really wanted this planet, they could have come and taken it. And they haven’t yet.

MVS: But, see, I hear this argument a lot. And I want to respond to that because I think it’s a, it’s a very reasonable argument. They don’t want to take the planet by force because they would destroy the environmental value of the planet and they need us as a workforce. They cannot breathe our atmosphere. They cannot live here; the biological hazard is too great. And they just can’t, they can’t breathe our atmosphere. So they need us. This is why the attempt to persuade and generate human acquiescence is so powerful in the work of the intervention in the world today. It’s the resource of the world they want, and we are part of that resource. We’re the labor. If you think of the interventions in the past, the colonial powers intervening in native races, they needed the people of those races to work for them.

JC: That’s right.

MVS: OK? They, they wanted, one of the first things that they wanted to do was displace their leaders’ belief in their own leaders, the, the native race’s belief in their own leaders, and their own religion. The two powers of authority in the lives of native peoples the oncoming colonials wanted to, wanted to remove that and shift it to themselves. This is exactly what the intervention is doing in religious terms in the world today. By confusing extraterrestrials with angels, by tuning into or speaking to our religious, unquestioned religious beliefs that anything that happens to us must be an act of God; must be something that is meant to happen; it’s here for our good; we need to be positive; we need to be accepting… Look what happened to the native peoples who were accepting, OK? I mean, as a religious man it’s tough for me to be this hardcore. But I think living in the real world and seeing what history has taught us and what has happened to the native peoples of the world, I have to take this position. Because if we don’t take this position, if we make a mistake here, we’re done. That’s it.

JC: Do y—

MVS: You can forget about human corruption. You can forget about conspiracy theories.

JC: Right

MVS: You can forget about the, the corrupt and corruption of malfeasance in government. We are facing the one thing that can overcome us and it can do it without the use of force.

JC: Do you think that there is (sic) those on this planet that would sell us out like that?

MVS: Absolutely! I mean, most politicians are opportunists, right? This is why the deep government never –, doesn’t have anything to do with them. They’ll go for the opportunity: “Oh, this is an opportunity.” And, of course, the intervention persuades people on the basis of, “I’ll give you power. I’ll give you technology. I’ll even give you spiritual fulfillment. We’ll give you whatever you think you want and can’t have; we’ll give it to you. We have it. We have no war…” I mean think about this. This is, we’re just such easy game when we make these kinds of assumptions. And we do it because we feel better about it. We feel good about it (JC: One –), you know. To think that we are facing other races who are like us, not, they don’t look like us, but are motivated by the same things that motivate us, but are more powerful than we are—that terrifies people.

JC: I look back to—and I run a piece of it in the intro of our show—I look back to Ronald Reagan’s famous run of speeches that he did,

MVS: Yes. That’s right.

JC: And he spoke about exactly this. Now we’re gonna head towards a break here in three minutes so I’ll give you a chance to respond and then we’ll pick it up on the back side but –

MVS: OK.

JC: – did he know something?

MVS: Oh I’m sure he did. I’m sure he did.

JC: Did he –, yeah, go ahead.

MVS: You know, this is something that is so important that we cannot make a mistake. I think that if we look at history, if we look at nature, if we look at what it would be like to have an intruder in your home who comes and goes at will, takes whatever they want, changes your work, you’re abode, your home; even begins to change you without explanation, without invitation; and you can only hope they’re there for a good purpose. Now I think most people would want to reclaim their own space and get that intruder out of their house. We have an intruder in our house doing all the things I just mentioned. You know, their behavior is what gives it away. It’s not that I’m a fear mongering negative person like I’ve been accused of, often. It is their behavior that gives them away—regardless of what they promise, what we want them to be; we want to feel good about this. I think that if we’re being really honest this is scary as hell.

JC: Right.

MVS: We’ve got, we got a real problem. And this is not so much about government. I mean, government’s its own problem. But this is a much bigger problem. The races in the world today
have much greater powers of persuasion than our elected officials do.

JC: The video –

MVS: That’s what they rely upon. (JC: Right) This is their power. It is not weapons. We have to get out of this weapon oriented mentality. That how, that’s what makes things work. In the universe they’ve had to outgrow this to survive.

JC: We’ve got to take a break.

MVS: And I think in our local universe, as it’s been revealed in the New Message life is like in our local universe war has been suppressed.

JC: We’ve gotta take a break. Hold on, Marshall, (cross talk) we gotta take a break right here. So let’s go ahead and do that. But also what is telling with that statement right there was the pilots were asked what kind of weapons they had on their planes, right? Obviously somebody wanted somebody to shoot somebody down. And it turned out they couldn’t even do that if they wanted to. And that’s what was brought out in that video. They were defenseless. Alright, this is Fade to Black. Our guest tonight: Marshall Summers. More of Marshall right after this short break. Stay with us…

JC: Now Marshall, continuing on with our conversation… Is there even a possibility of any positive interaction with ET? You know, what happened to love and light and all of that stuff?

MVS: Ah, well… It’s interesting that, I think that the thing that we have to be very careful of here, if we’re going to be able to see this clearly, if we’re going to have the eyes to see and the ears to hear that our innate within us—we have that ability—is we can’t want anything from this. We can’t want power. We can’t want technology. We can’t want resolution to our problems. We can’t watch spiritual fulfillment. We can’t want to have our our ideology confirmed, our religious belief confirmed. If we can do that—and that’s not an easy thing to do for people; I mean, I will be the first to say that—then we have a chance to really see. You know, after 70 years of being aware of craft in our skies—let me say beginning in 1947 (JC: Mm-hmm) can we step back and see this for what it is; because there are four fundamental questions that we have to bring to the table here.

The first is, “What is happening?” Now seventy years of very noble UFO research has answered that question admirably. We have enough pieces of this puzzle to see what it’s telling us. The next question, though is, “Why is it happening?” Next question: “What does it mean?” Fourth question: “What do we do?” We have to go on beyond the first question. If we keep walking around the first question endlessly—there’s always more scraps of evidence; there’s always interesting things there—but we have to go on to all four questions.

And I’ve spoken at many different symposia. I’ve been in the audience of many different symposia around this subject; and I see the emphasis on the first question. But I feel that with each passing day, with each passing year, we are becoming weaker as a race. We are being weakened. We were already weak to begin with in many ways, but we are being weakened by the presence of those who are in our world.

You know, the Allies of Humanity briefings, which was given to me much later in my work, given to me as a gift from the, from the divine, basically, as witnesses, as physical beings living in our local universe who actually represent free races; they said no one should be visiting your world at this time. You are not ready for contact. You don’t have the species maturity. You don’t have the unity. You have no one to represent all the people of the world. You are not ready for contact. No one should be here at this time.

JC: But yet they are.

MVS: Yet they are.

JC: With, with the dynamics of this past Saturday—which I can no longer say “apparently” show something; it does show something—we, whether we’re ready or not, that question has been answered.

MVS: Yeah, well that’s right. Yeah. We know they’re here, but now we need to take it further. And you can’t do that if you’re trying to validate your own beliefs. (JC: Right) I didn’t have any beliefs about you ufology when I started. I just could say, “Sure we’ve, we can’t be the only race in the universe. Sure, there must be even all kinds of races out there.” But I didn’t have any view. I didn’t have any set opinions. I didn’t have any professional investment. I came to this
like, “Show me. I don’t know.” But when I began to, to respond to the Revelation and begin to read what people were experiencing—the sightings; later on, the abductions—boy, I tell you I got a bad feeling from this in the very beginning. I said, “No friend would do this.”

Now I want to backup a little bit for your other question because I think there were positive forces here after World War 2 for a time. And the contactee experiences they had in places like Giant Rock were part of that phenomenon. But something else has come that’s displaced all of that. And you know the important thing I think here, is any friend of Amer–, of humanity, excuse me; any friend of humanity would know that we cannot tell friend from foe so they would certainly withdraw in the face of other forces who are here to take advantage of our situation. This creates an unambiguous environment, because many people say, “Oh yeah, they’re probably bad ETs. But they’re also good E–, there has to be good ETs.” Well, that’s just because that’s what they want; that’s what they need. But you know, we don’t have the criteria to tell friend from foe except in terms of the behavior of those who are functioning in the world today. Their, as I said before, their behavior in my mind says it all. There are many details we don’t know, many details we don’t understand. But basically, we have an intruder in our house who’s operating without our permission, going against our will. And I’ve had enough experience with contactees, at least those who have gone through the scary part of recognizing that they’re kind, of that they’re abductees, their story is very, very telling—very grim. These people have lost control of their lives to a certain extent. (JC: Mm-hmm) And they’re at the behest of other powers who come when they were will, take what they want, and you, do whatever to these people that they want to do. Now, that’s that’s like saying, you know, raping a woman is a good thing—good for the woman—or good for the earth. Because there are real, there’re real crimes against humanity happening, in this phenomenon.

So I know people want to make this a good thing because they’re not strong enough or willing enough to face what this probably really is, which is an intervention in our world from races who are here to gain dominance in our world. They look at us as reckless, chaotic, destructive…

JC: Well, we are.

MVS: And we are (cross talk) no right to come and displace us.

JC: Marshall, let me jump in, let me jump in. You, you mentioned we wouldn’t be able to recognize friend from foe. We can’t even do that with our neighbors, right? We can’t even do that on our own planet. So certainly looking out into the universe… But in that same respect, is ET—there’s, you know, an infinite amount of, of ET races out there in our, in our galaxy and in the universe.

MVS: Mm-hum. Yes.

JC: What are they doing with themselves? Are they warring with themselves? Are they getting along? Have they figured out a way to get past this?
MVS: Well I think the, what’s, what’s the Message given to me is there’s evolution at every stage out there. There’s primitive races. There’s warring races. There’s races who’ve gone beyond the need for war. There are races who are not spiritual, and that’s apparently very common. There are races who are deeply spiritual. But to be a free race in the universe requires three things: It requires unity. It requires self sufficiency. And it requires great discretion. These are the requirements for all races in the universe. This is the Revelation from the New Message. This is not my idea. I didn’t think this up. (JC: Right. ) When you begin to think about this, we are breaking all those rules. We’re hardly united and at the risk of becoming evermore fractured. In fact, I see the fracturing of nations happening all over the world very, very disturbing to me, at a time when human unity is of the utmost importance, knowing what I know. We’re destroying our self-sufficiency about as fast as we can, which is going to have just immense consequences for us here on earth. And, we’re hardly discrete. We’re broadcasting out into our local universe all of our conflicts, all of our weaknesses, all of our indulgences. And, and you know, we’re, we appear to be absolutely reckless and ridiculous probably to many races. But we also are very vulnerable. We’re very persuadable.

See, this is, this is a huge invitation. It’s almost like saying to the universe, “Come and get us. We just can’t get our act together down here.” But still, there are ethics to contact. And we, over time, something like… This is something I emphasize. I spoke at the MUFON national conference back in 2006 and I presented on the bene–, the ethics of contact. And the ethics of contact mean that we are a young race. We’re not more sinful than other young races. We’re making mistakes that all races probably make to one degree or another. We’re not the bad boys in the universe. We’re not a threat to the universe. I mean, we’re, we’re pathetic, but we’re not a threat to the universe or to the worlds around us.

But that we must establish our own rules of engagement. And why, you would say, “Well what difference is that gonna make?” The New Message tells us that the races who are here can only function if we agree that they can be here, because outright conquest is not allowed in this part of our galaxy. We live in a highly developed part of the galaxy, where large trading nations and trading associations have replaced war and conflict. And outright conquest is not allowed. So for a race to intervene with a young race like us, it has to at least appear to outside observers that that is tolerated by us. And this is why the intervention seeks to gain our approval, our acquiescence whenever possible. And if we don’t acquiesce, then it tries basically to discourage us or depress us. (JC: [unclear]) In other words, “You have no way to oppose us.” So that’s very depressing. So when you see these flyby reports of airline pilots and military pilots this is, this is a demonstration of power. Do you think your crew–? “You think you’re good, look at us; you have no power against us.” When in fact, they are very small groups of individuals without military assets. We rule the whole world. They can’t breathe our atmosphere. And we have the power to expel them and drive them out if we make that known, if we speak out against their presence here.

Now people are so used to war and conflict as a way of resolving things that they don’t see the opportunity here. And we wouldn’t see it ourselves if we didn’t have this greater perspective. I didn’t invent this perspective. I didn’t even know about these things. So I know I just said a whole lot, and I’d like you to respond, but…

JC: (inaudible)

MVS: …well we’re really dealing with something of great importance here.

JC: Your knowledge of UFO history is pretty impressive; so, I feel that you do understand historically all of the subjects. But with that knowledge have you seen something in the sky that you can’t explain?

MVS: Yes I have.

JC: Tell me about it.

MVS: And I saw it from a very kind of famous locale, which is the Great Sand Dunes of Colorado, where the first animal mutilation was reported, the first known mutilation was reported.

JC: Right.

MVS: Yeah, I saw a craft, way up high, probably at 40,000 feet. And I could see the Sun—it was late in the day—and the Sun was shining off the bottom of it. I thought it was just a big airplane. And it went into a cloud never came out—a small cloud. And I probably watched it for a half an hour and nothing ever came out; it was a clear day otherwise. And it was bright enough for me to see. And I felt pretty strange about that (clears throat) But I’m sure people are seeing these things all the time. Because one of the weaknesses of the intervention is they don’t –, they make very little effort to hide themselves. It’s, the problem is people just aren’t looking.

JC: Yeah, I know, right?

MVS: People are downcast. People are self-obsessed. They’re not looking up at the sky. You could have all kinds of things happening up there and a few people would see it, but probably not very many.

JC: Yeah it’s a game changer when it when you see something like that.

MVS: Yes.

JC: And see there, and I’m not in any way trying to sound strange here or sexist, but men—we grow up with the love of machines and mechanics and rockets and planes and, and (MVS: Yes) we know every type of car and every type of plane and helicopter. We know what we’re looking at. And when you see something that you can’t explain… because our thing that we do, Marshall, is we compete in identifying, “Oh that’s a, you know that’s a…” “No it’s not; it’s a…” You know, we know these things. We study these things. And when you see something that you can’t explain away like you did, that’s a game changer that’s a game changer.

MVS: Yes, well, you don’t forget it. That’s for sure. And of course if you’re a person that’s been taken against your will, that’s a big deal. That’s a very big deal. And people who accept that or think that that’s beneficial for them, I, I just, I feel for them; because I think they’re really giving them, their lives away.

You know, there’s something very beautiful, and this is part of the spirituality of life in the universe. And I want to go back to talking, if I can spend a moment doing this—this deeper Knowledge that we have—because it’s the only part of us that cannot be manipulated. It cannot be interfered with. It cannot be overtaken—the deeper intelligence within us. This makes it the most reliable aspect of our entire being. This is like, beneath the surface of our worldly mind, the mind that the world and culture has created—our history and our experience has created—we are surrounded by influences increasingly. We’re surrounded by surveillance increasingly.

But we have this deeper Knowledge within us. This is a thing that will tell us, if we can respond to it, what we’re looking at—not just in terms of something really big like this, but in everyday affairs—in discerning who to be with in a relationship; or whether to accept an opportunity or not; or whether to go to this place or not to go to this place. We’ve been given this natural inner guidance, not only to direct us, but to hold us back from the things that are unhealthy for us—the things that could endanger us and so forth. That is why I feel that the experience of this Knowledge, taking the Steps to this Knowledge, holds a critical element in our ability to see and know the truth and to be able to respond appropriately.

JC: Right. The uh, the other part of this that I find a little bit disturbing, is that with the release of this video this past Saturday it clearly shows something that is not ours, you know? It’s not Russian. It’s not Chinese. It’s not ours. We doesn’t (sic) understand it. And it’s performing at a pretty extreme –. Now we have been seeing that, there has been enough evidence of this going on for, for decades now—on film and video and eyewitness testimony. I’ve seen these kind of things myself. Why release the video, you know, from the government side, out into the public domain to cause –, I mean, is it part of disclosure? Is it part of disruption? Are they looking for a reaction from everybody? I don’t understand the reason for releasing the video.

MVS: Well those are very good questions. I’m not sure we can –, are in a position to answer them. Clearly, the government knows that they have to deal with this question in some way with the public; because enough of the public now is questioning these things, is looking at these things, is responding to these things that the government can’t just act like it’s just not dealing with it or has no understanding of it. So it’s… I’m not sure. You know, I just, I’m reticent to go down that road because I think in the end we won’t know for sure. But one of the things that seems very important for us, going back to this seeing and knowing what we are looking at, is to go on to these other three questions, if we can, because they really hold the key to what’s happening. Because what’s happening is only a first step if you don’t know why it’s happening, what it means or what you have to do, then you really don’t understand what’s happening.

JC: That’s right.

MVS: OK? It’s, it’s just the first, it’s the entree to something that we have to explore. And one, one perspective on this that I’d like to present is, is the most–, it’s kind of the most natural and historical: “Why do other forms, why do other races, in this case non-human races, why does intervention happen?” We know why it happens. It happens because we, the natives have something those powers want. And all the activities that the intervention is demonstrating, in my mind, is demonstrating those kind of activities, or things that are very similar: the “divide and conquer,” for example; or displacing the native peoples’ natural authority; the, the emphasis on making us, increasing distrust in our own leaders and institutions. Well that creates a vacuum of confidence. Where is that confidence, then, going to be placed?

It gets redirected. I mean, certainly, the government is full of all kinds (chuckles a little) of things to criticize and be concerned about. But if we lose confidence on our own kind leading us, that then creates a vacuum of confidence that is filled by others. This is what, in the past, intervening European nations did to establish themselves as the new power of the new Authority, the ones to follow and to believe in. So we are dealing now with intervention, I think, that’s happening along some classic lines. And unless there was an absolute proof that what they are doing is beneficial for us—and I have never seen it—then we should take the opposite position as our starting point—to be very skeptical, very cautious—which means we can’t want anything from this. We don’t put ourselves in a position to be seduced by it. We don’t insist that it be good for us so we can feel more comfortable. We just have to have the courage to face it that, you know, we may be the big kid on the block in our own world, but in this universe out there we’re a nobody.

JC: No, we’re hillbillies.

MVS: We’re hillbillies. And we’re sitting on a planet, a very rare planet. I know there’s lots of planets and there’s –. But planets like ours, the New Revelation says are very rare and highly valued. So those races in here today are taking a long time to go about intervening in our world; integrating themselves into our lives; gaining our, at least for sufficient numbers of people, gaining our acquiescence, or our approval, or at least our tolerance that they, then, become part of us. And many people want them to become part of us. Even Greater Community people want them to because we’re trying to reconnect with the universe. And that’s a very natural, valuable inspiration. But we’re also living in the real physical universe where we can’t confuse then our higher aspirations with certain levels of reality that we have to deal with. And as the native peoples we have to see this correctly; we have to have a starting point. And I don’t see that. In fact, it’s so infrequent in my experience I– . Certainly you hear it in your show. But the events that I’ve attended, even, you know, spoken at, I’m like the only person who’s saying, “Hey, we need disclosure from the extraterrestrial presence.” That’s where we need disclosure.

JC: The –

MVS: I’m the only one questioning this. I’m the only one saying, “This is not a good thing.” (JC: Right) And it’s like I’m raining, I’m raining on other people’s parades, you know. They’re, they’re really getting off on this. They think this is really exciting and fun and interesting. And I’m coming along and saying, “Hey people: this is nature again. We’re facing competitors from the universe who are very clever (JC: But–) and they’re using our weaknesses and our divisions against us

JC: But Marshall, this has been the fundamental–. We’ve had two fundamental questions since we were able to figure out how to laugh and think, okay?, going back 10,000 years, which is, first, what happens after we die? Second,

MVS: Yeah.

JC: – are we alone in the universe? That’s it. And and if, if we can get one of those two questions answered we’re halfway there and that’s the way that the world is looking at all of this I mean it is (MVS: Yeah.) a it’s a fundamental thing. You’re two years old, three years old, you know, young little baby Marshall are running around in your backyard looking up at the stars (MVS chuckles) you’re thinking, What’s going on out there?

MVS: Yes, that’s right. That’s right.

JC: And it’s –, now, but, but this is the other part, though. If, if the contact is established, you know, beyond, you know, the video that we just saw and everything else that’s going on, if that contact is established, are we, are we not able for deal-making, you know? It’s because that’s what we like to do. We like to cut a deal. Like you said, the better, (MVS: Mm hm) the better food is across the valley. How do we get that, right?

MVS: Yes.

JC: OK, so that’s what we do. Is there no deal-making to be had here? And if there is certainly ET has already outsmarted us on that front, right? They know that we’re gonna try to make a deal. So now we’ve got this paradox and that’s, that’s the thing. I don’t know, I, I don’t know what to do about it. We’re gonna discuss more of this after the break. But you know is there, is there not a way to move forward through this intervention?

MVS: I believe there is. And we can certainly talk about that.

JC: Yeah. I think we need solutions. We have the questions; we need the solutions.

MVS: Yes.

JC: So let’s take a break right here. Our guest tonight: Marshall Summers. Hey Marshall, I’m just gonna let you know I’m enjoying this conversation but I–

MVS: Oh good.

JC: – expected it. I expected it. This is Fade to Black. I’m your host Jimmy Church. More with Marshall after this short break. Stay with us.

JC: Now Marshall, we need answers we need solutions and one is (MVS: Yes) and one of the things that I’ve always said about ET, and certainly with things like artificial intelligence and singularity, when we start to get around things that are smarter than us and we think we are outsmarting someone, they have that answer before we even do something. There is no kill switch. They will have thought about the kill switch before we even invent it. So, we do need these solutions. What do we do?

MVS: OK. Well, I think one of the things we need to do is we need to become aware, the awareness, not just for, you know, your listeners because I’m sure your listeners are very aware that we’re being visited, but we need to begin to consider the other three questions. And not just from the standpoint of what we want, but from a deeper sense of what we know. And we have to start with reality. This is about reality now. And reality is something that you can apprehend if you can approach it without press–, preference or are pre-considered conclusions. We’re dealing with something that’s, that’s a reality that we we can determine. This is not a mystery. You know, I’ve, I’ve always been asked, “Well this is such a mystery. We’re never going to understand this.” I said, “That’s ridiculous. This is ridiculous. This is nature.” I mean, element–, at an elementary level this is nature.

And I want to make one point before we get into specifics of preparation is to say that the intervention here today and our emergence into the Greater Community of intelligent life is about our spirituality; not because of the visitors, but because of what this can do for us and our world. As I said before, this is the only thing that could unite a diffracted and competing humanity. And we have to enter this greater community with some degree of functional unity or we’re not going to survive there. We’re never going to have, to be able to establish and maintain freedom there. It takes a very united race to do this. And that’s why I said the three things that are necessary for this are unity, self sufficiency and discretion.

The preparation has to begin with awareness and education. We need to learn things about the Greater Community that is not us; that is the Greater Community itself. And I think I can make a contribution to that through the writings that I’ve received: the book, Life in the Universe, which you can read free online. Just Google Life in the Universe, the reality and spirituality of intel–, life in the universe. These books give you an opportunity, then, to reconsider the realities that exist out there, because there are no greener pastures out there. In fact, after a while you begin to realize how valuable this planet is and how hard life is out there in the universe. This is a real sea change in how people might begin to respond to the specter of life in the universe. In life, the book, Life in the Universe, the whole first part of it is about the mundane prosaic realities of our local universe—the things we need to know. And the second part is about the spirituality of life in the universe and how God works in the universe through the power of Knowledge within sentient life. And it’s a, it’s very, very clear; but it’s very different than how people usually think of these things. So the education has to be really sound, and I think that there may be something here that I think is going to help in that regard.

JC: The (clears throat) this is, this is where I believe that you’re right. And and let me make this statement and then let’s move forward. If we encountered, we, you and I, right?, you and I were on our starship and we go to another planet that’s got life, we would expect, seriously, that everybody on that planet represented that planet—they were one and they were whole.

MVS: Yes.

JC: ET comes here and they see the exact opposite of that.

MVS: That’s right.

JC: We are completely foreign to our own selves. We are fighting ourselves. We have different ideologies, which is all great, but we don’t, we have not figured out a way to all get along. And we would expect that, we would expect that on another planet wouldn’t we?

MVS: Yes, (laughs) we would.

JC: We would expect that.

MVS: And the fact that we are so divided makes us a perfect opportunity for a divide-and-conquer strategy. This is how it works.

JC: Certainly.

MVS: Since how, even in the native example from history, different tribes were cast against each other. Or their natural, their, their historic enemies were pitted against each other. And we see this in the world today. I mean, the intervention seeks to increase human conflict in the world, particularly to take the most powerful nations in the world and get them involved in, in situations that they can’t, they can’t get out of.

JC: We do it constantly, Marshall. We do it with sports…

MVS: We can do this on our own,

JC: Right.

MVS: …but there’s an incentive to weaken the most powerful nations to get them in intractable conflicts, to weaken them, to impoverish them. And this is going on increasingly as the intervention takes, has greater influence in our world. I see this. It’s not just human error. It’s not just human stupidity. There is a purpose behind these kinds of things, being stimulated. Who is, who’s stimulating our appetite for war? This serves the intervention. As long as –. They want to pit us against each other. They want us to focus on each other. This is why human, you know, the conspiracy theories that only focus on government serves the intervention, because it’s us being obsessed with each other in a very conflicted and adversarial way. And our attention is off the intervention. We’re not thinking about them. We need to be thinking about them; we’re not thinking about them.

JC: Well isn’t this why disclosure is a good thing, then?

MVS: I think disclosure is a good thing if it could be sustained, because, you know, the news is sensational in the moment and then it goes onto something else and people kind of forget.

JC: What do you think –?

MVS: If it could be sustained, if this could be a sustained disclosure—objectively, like, this is just what people saw, this is what people experienced—without commentary trying to define it or make it palatable to human consumption. “The pilot saw this.” “The person on the ground saw that.” See, this is the kind of disclosure we need,

JC: What’s the next step?

MVS: … not somebody explaining the whole thing based upon their, their theory or philosophy about life.

JC: What would sustain it? What’s next?

MVS: I don’t know what would sustain it. I don’t think –. I think disclosure is really the thing that isn’t so important. I think we have to educate people this is happening. And we have to talk about Knowledge, because Knowledge is their, their ability to see the truth beyond deception. And there’s nothing else in our mind that can really do that.

JC: But it hasn’t worked in the past, though, Marshall, because –

MVS: It has worked sufficiently in the past that everything good that has been created in our history has been able to happen. But you know, there’s so much ignorance in the world and there’s so much violence in the world, so much poverty. Think about half of the human population can’t even make a contribution to humanity. I’m talking about women now. They’re tethered to, to domestic duties—all over the world. How much of the world lives in poverty?

JC: Half,

MVS: Staggering…

JC: – half.

MVS: Staggering. All those people are never going to make a contribution to society. This is what’s keeping us poor. This is what’s keeping us in a state of constant aggravation. So the spiritual connection here is very important, because life in the universe requires us to engage with this Knowledge, if we have any hope of understanding it and preparing for it.

JC: I have often said, and this is where I can, I conflict in my own mind, I have this conflict, which is this: half of the world—half three and a half billion people—live in garbage dumps. And to those kids, those children five, six, seven years old that don’t have a hope of an education, let alone a meal the next day, right?, they don’t –. What does ET have to do with them? They don’t under–, they have no clue about what you and I are talking about right now, which are very important –

MVS: Oh, absolutely not.

JC: – subjects, right? So what about them?

MVS: Well, you know, it’s –. I’m gonna answer this in a kind of odd way. It’s the people who are free enough, educated enough, who can make the difference. The person who lives in the garbage dump can’t do it. They are circumstantially oppressed. It could be religiously oppressed; it could be politically oppressed, on top of that. It’s the people like you and me and your listeners, most of your listeners, who are free enough, who have the opportunity to become educated—who have the willingness to look into this great and powerful phenomenon—that can make the difference. I think getting disclosure from the government is hopeless. I think it’s really a waste of time. It’s nev–, we’re never going to get the whole picture. They’re never going to tell us the whole truth. And they’re gonna tend to condition it to their advantage to whatever degree that they do. Now when a Na–, when a Air Force pilot, or a Navy pilot in this case, says, “I saw these craft,” that’s good disclosure. But beyond that the government’s not going to show its hand.

But we don’t need the government to know the truth. We can know the truth. This is the basis of, you know, my whole approach to this. People can know the truth if certain, if a certain thing is stimulated within them. And we all experience this. Besides the fact that we do stupid things and are led astray and get seduced into various things, we have this ability to know the truth. And to respond to it, this is the thing that’s going to need to happen. It doesn’t, it’s not going to happen with everyone. Listen, the American Revolution was only supported by 25% or 20% of the population.

JC: Right.

MVS: And it worked. So it’s not like everyone; it’s like the people who have a need and who know and who can make a difference. They’re free enough to make a difference—and we are those people, OK? I’m, all I can give to the person living in the dump is food and shelter and security. That’s what those people need. You know, the Greater Community is not important to them, probably. Their needs are much more elemental and overwhelming. But for us we have the opportunity to see the big picture. We need to see it clearly. We need to see it without preference, without fear. We can’t be looking at it to fulfill ourselves spiritually, even though, as I said before, our emergence into the Greater Community will be the most powerful spiritual expansion that we’ve had. But it’s not because of the visitors who are here.

JC: Well –

MVS: It’s because of what will happen within us in this process of emergence.

JC: And the beautiful thing is there is no going back now.

MVS: Oh, no.

JC: There is no we’ve –

MVS: No

JC: – taken a huge step forward. That cannot be taken away from us. We, there, you know, what I mean, there’s no taking a step back now. We’re only going to move forward. But the other part of this is if we can’t do it, if we’re not –. How do I –? I want to say this sounding positive and not negative, but we may not be smart enough, right?, to run the end-around pattern here. We may not be able to to put a play in play. But the alternative is what, though? Do we arm ourselves? Or do we, don’t we wouldn’t have the technology to so… I mean, I’m not so sure, you know, how to move forward (MVS: OK) if there is a big plan to come in and take this planet and use us as slaves, if you know what I mean; I’m speaking in metaphors here.

MVS: Yes, I do know what you mean. You know, I think this is a very critical question. The fact is we’re not dealing with military forces here.

JC: Right.

MVS: That is not the strength. That is not their power. And they are constrained by certain rules of engagement that exist in our local universe; which is something no one an earth could ever know about, but is revealed through this New Message. And it’s revealed in such a way because we need to know the limits of the power of those who are in our world—what restrains them, what encourages them. We have the, we actually have the upper hand here. We just do not exercise that authority.

JC: How so?

MVS: Because we have the eyes to see. We can visit, we can notice everything they’re doing in the world and we can speak out against it. And that, then, itself would be would begin to thwart the intervention occurring in the world today. And in the process we would gain greater unity, cooperation, all the things that we really need that can only happen under circumstances like this. We’re never going to unite because we should. We’re going to unite because we have to. And our emergence into the Greater Community is going to make us do this or break us. This is the power of our times. You know, things that are important just don’t happen because somebody just wants it to happen. They happen because they must. It’s that word, must. A lot of people don’t like that word; they think it’s, it’s too forceful. But that is the power of our time. We must do certain things. And it’s going to start with individuals. It’s not going to start with governments and leaders. It’s going to start with the people—and we are the people. And this is where this is all really happening. This is where the truth is emerging and can emerge and become strong. You know, when people are most noble is when they are dealing with a crisis.

JC: Right.

MVS: The house is on fire so everybody goes there to try to help do whatever they can, even put their own lives at risk to save the people who are endangered. That’s when we are at our best. We need something like this to be at our best because otherwise we all sink and submerge into a kind of a listless state, or we become obsessed with our needs and our problems and ourselves. It’s, it’s the bigger need that draws us out of that and into the greatness that we carry. And this greatness that we carry has to do with this Knowledge that I speak of. And it’s activated by the very kinds of circumstances that we’re having to face, which seems so overwhelming, but in essence hold the real key to our redemption.

We are, have to going to have to earn our freedom in the universe. No one’s going to come and give it to us. We’re not –; we just can’t have it because we’re nice or because we expect it. We’re going to have to earn it like we always have had to earn it to whatever degree we’ve ever been able to have it. And now we’re talking about the whole planet having to earn it—not everybody—but enough people of conscience who are dedicated to doing this.

JC: Earn what though, Marshall? Respect?

MVS: Establish our rules of engagement, which means you can’t come here without our permission. And if you do we will oppose you with all the force that we have.

JC: Right.

MVS: That’s overwhelming force considering the presence of those in our world today.

JC: A mental –

MVS: Overwhelming force –

JC: Right, OK. So let me jump in here so I’m understanding, because I’m with you on this, if I’m understanding you correctly,

MVS: UH huh.

JC:– which is this: Our body, you get a sliver in your body; it gets rejected, right? Eventually it gets expelled.

MVS: Right.

JC: Are you suggesting that this planet, if we all come together and not want this, that is more powerful than anything else. And if we just don’t want ET here that that would be strong enough, that would be the overwhelming force?

MVS: I think I would cast it in slightly –, differently. We don’t want intervention. When we’re ready would we have enough unity, enough strength, enough education about life in the universe? Then we could be ready for visit real visitation. We are not ready. But we cannot have intervention. We will welcome people into our house, but we have to welcome them on our terms.

JC: Right.

MVS: It cannot be intervention.

JC: Why is it that, and we’re winding down here. I want to thank you before we do run out of time. This has been an absolutely amazing conversation. Is there, is there—and again I want to sound positive here; I don’t want to sound negative—but to, to allow that to happen, to go to that next step of, of—I’m not talking, you know, moving past intervention and acceptance into the universe—is it, how do I want to say this? I want to say this right. Do we have to all here on this planet, do we have to all be on the same page? I guess that’s the best way to put it. How do we, how do we get to, how do we get to that without everything else that, that comes in with the negative aspect of it? I don’t know how we how we can have it both ways. How we can get everybody on this planet to understand it because it hasn’t worked in the past it’s all been on faith in the past it’s all been on faith without having (MVS: yes) the nuts and bolts side of this in front of because that’s what we that’s what we asked for.

MVS: Yes. You know first of all, we don’t need everyone of the planet to be involved in this because most people are way too oppressed by poverty and degradation to even have a chance at it. It’s going to be up to the people, again like I said, who have the awareness and the focus to sound this alarm. We’re sounding an alarm now. I’m sounding an alarm. Wherever I go, I’m giving the, the dilemma, the hazard and the great opportunity. Because I think that our emergence in the Greater Community is destiny. And it will be a tremendous upgrade for humanity. But upgrades do not happen in and of themselves. They happen as a result of us having to do things we’ve never done before. And adapting to life in the universe is something we have never done before. Learning how to deal with visitation is something we’ve never done before.

We have to learn how to do things we’ve never done before because that’s what enables survival to continue. We don’t just arrive at a comfortable place and everything from then on is, is easy. No. We keep having to deal with problems of survival and competition is one of those problems. And we are facing now: competition.

So I think this is a real call to service for people. I think it’s a call to integrity. I think it’s a call to a spiritual awakening, because spiritual awakening isn’t about bliss and glory. It’s about service in the world, simple service—doing something that really needs to be done. That, in my view, is what spiritually leads to and what it ultimately means here on earth. And we have a time now when the needs are so great. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. We are all here to make a difference. We’re not here just to be comfortable and happy and checked out. We are here to make a real difference. And we need something now that can do this for all the nations of the world, who are facing the same outcome should the intervention continue in its current pathway.

JC: How did we do that without fear, though, because that’s all we seem to understand?

MVS: Don’t worry about love and fear. Do what is true. Listen, fear –. Do you think the Dalai Lama is not afraid of what’s happened to the people of Tibet? I mean fear is, can be used purposefully in this situation. If we try to not be fearful at the expense of seeing clearly, then we’re kind of betraying ourselves.

JC: Right.

MVS: We’re going to be afraid. This is over–, will look overwhelming. Many people just give up. They just can’t handle it. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be handled, shouldn’t be addressed. That’s why you’re doing what you’re doing. That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. I mean, we’re doing this because it has to happen. And we’re doing it out of a deep love for humanity in this world, and from a deep love of freedom. Because in the end it’s all about freedom. And freedom is rare in the universe from what the New Message tells us. That’s not how most races evolve. That’s not where they usually end up. So to be a free race in the universe—it’s a very remarkable achievement. But it has to be earned. And it will be challenged. And that is our challenge. And that is our opportunity in this kind of great dilemma for humanity, is the great opportunity.

JC: We are in exciting times, Marshall. There’s no question about that now what’s the best way as we –. We’re here at the end here. And I wish we can keep going. We’ll, we’ll do this again next month and continue this on another show. But what’s the best way for everybody – ? We have Alliesofhumanity.org,

MVS: Yes…

JC: …your writings, your videos… Where is the best place to go and access all of this?

MVS: Well the first – . The Allies of Humanity briefings are a beautiful place to begin. They’re all free online—all three sets of them are free online at NewMessagedotORG, which is our big website. We have the new book that just came out, Life in the Universe, excuse me, The Greater Community: Contact with Life in the Universe. That can be read free online. Most of my work is free online because I’m trying to reach a world audience. Anyone who has a phone or a computer has a chance to go read these things.

We’re also doing tremendous translation work. We have translations in 27 languages currently. We have 51 translators working, contributing their time doing this important activity. We’re doing what we can to bring this information to people to give them a chance to experience it. I think the New Message website, anything dealing with Worldwide Community; the Worldwide Community is a new thing that we’ve started where people all over the world can either, talk to each other. We have a free school where, you know, I present teachings to people—no charge. And we have people from many countries involved with that.

So we’re trying to do whatever work we can to bring this to as many people as we can. And we know it’s a huge thing to face. This is a hard thing to face. It will challenge many of our ideas. But it is so important. And for many people this is like, this is what they’ve been looking for.

JC: I want to thank you for, for coming on tonight and I can’t wait to bring you back on. Are you going to—I’ve got 30 seconds—are you going to be speaking anywhere out publicly?

MVS: No, I’m just doing a, I’m just doing broadcasting and interviews at this time.

JC: Well, there you go. Well you’ve got a new outlet here on Fade to Black for sure, Marshall. Thank you so much.

MVS: (cross talk) – so much. I appreciate your being the host for me tonight, I really do.

JC: Absolutely great conversation, and we’ll do it again here very soon. Thank you so much.

MVS: Thanks.

JC: Marshall Sommers, everybody. Great conversation. Now all of the links for Marshall are over at Jimmy Church radio.com. Allies of humanity dot org is right there. Click on it. Go check it out. Everything is available and it’s there for free. Thank you so much, Marshall Summers. This is Fade to Black.

Interview date: December 20, 2017

Listen to the Full Interview (paywall)